Interview
with Swami Nirliptananda by Devi Linda Gumahin
Discussion
of Hindu philosophy and its influence on the world's major religions
and cultures.
Q:
What is Hinduism?
A:
Hinduism is a name given to what Hindus call the 'Vedic religion'
or Sanatan Dharma which means 'Eternal Law', the law that
governs man and the universe. It is a modern name for that ancient
religion. It is something very scientific, very logical - not
a dogma - and when we look at it, we find that it has certain
ingredients that psychologists are using today.
The
word Hinduism came much later. Hinduism is not a historical type
of religion. As far back as we can go we find that Hinduism was
already existing. It is the original religion. The Hindus are
not converts; they were born into that religion, grow and live
in it.
Its
basis is Sathya - Truth - and as we all know, Sathya is eternal.
So when we talk about Sathya, we talk about wisdom and knowledge
as well, because Truth is the basis of knowledge, and in the Hindu
religion Truth plays a very important part. It is by Truth that
we can become free, that we can liberate ourselves from this world
of ignorance. Its original scriptures are known as the
Vedas.
Veda
is the book of wisdom. Veda means knowledge. In Hinduism, the
emphasis is on seeking knowledge, because only knowledge can destroy
ignorance and ignorance is the cause of the problems of the world.
The more we can attain to that state of understanding, the greater
our vision becomes and, therefore, we will be better able to handle
the problems of the world. Hinduism is not just a philosophy of
teachings about God; it is also a study of man and the world,
and it is this study that makes Hindus a very practical type of
people.
Q:
Can you please explain about Hinduism as regards its being the
'original religion'?
A:
The Hindus believe that in very ancient times - not in terms of
civilization which started just recently, as people in the West
think - there were civilized people many, many thousands of years
ago and that, at that time, Hindu teachers were travelling to
different parts of the world, like Mexico and South America, and
influenced their thinking. We may wonder how other religions came
into existence in this world.
There
has been a lot of research about Jesus and there is a strong tendency
to think that Jesus went to India where He received His teachings,
after which He returned to the western world. Other researches
show that, in ancient times, Israel and India were connected.
Even though Christianity has a Jewish background, it has been
very much influenced by Hindu thought, Hindu religion, and some
Hindu teachers are of the opinion that Jesus had brought a teaching
like 'The Sermon on the Mount' from India: So, Hinduism is reflected
through Christianity in the Western world. Islam is a combination
of Christianity and Judaism - what we call the Semitic source.
There is proof that there were strong contacts between Indian
teachers and the people of countries like Arabia, Egypt and Greece,
and much of Hindu wisdom came to those countries. We also know
that mathematics - for instance, the Indian invention of one to
nine and the zero - was brought by the Arabs to the western world.
Furthermore,
medical science and astrology, among other things, were invented
in India and influenced other parts of the world. A part can never
give complete satisfaction. This happens only when the whole is
experienced. Hinduism is the oldest religion in the world. The
Hindus believe that whatever one is following is part of Hindu
principles; they may not be fully grasped, but whatever one is
following has some truth in it; it may not be the full truth but
even a part is helpful to guide one on the path of God-realization.
That is why Hindus are very tolerant. Since they believe that
every path leads towards God, there is no need to convert anyone.
Hindus believe that God is One, but the sages - the wise men of
the world - call Him by different names. Although the names may
differ, in reality we are talking about the same person, the One.
Different people may call a man - because of their relationship
with him - father, brother or husband, yet he is the same person.
In that way God is also One, but people see Him differently according
to their ideas about Him, and it is these ideas about God that
matter. Some people think that their idea is more perfect than
other people's ideas and some people even fight for them, and
so they create a lot of conflict in the world. The Hindus, however,
think that because God is One - though people call Him by different
names - there is no need for conflict. On the contrary there should
be tolerance about the different religions rather than conflicts.
In
Hinduism, experience is important, not belief. Experience is more
profound than belief because only experience can transform us
and make us into a different person. The emphasis in Hinduism
is on knowledge because, as we all know, ignorance is the cause
of our problems. Therefore religion should emphasize knowledge.
If we want to find out about knowledge we need freedom, and unless
there is individual freedom to seek God, the Hindus think that
the liberation we are aspiring to cannot be realized. So religion
according to Hinduism cannot take us to a very high level. This
is more a personal thing and means that we have to search for
a genuine spiritual teacher and when we find him he will instruct
us on that higher path towards the realization of God.
Q:
What is your comment on the expectation of the coming of a World
Teacher?
A:
Today most people are conscious of the fact that there is a need
for a Teacher and many people of different religions have been
expecting a World Teacher coming into the world to change the
world, to change man's mind and to make him a more divine being.
In Hinduism, it is believed that a Divine Incarnation comes from
time to time to help the world. We, in our own organization, recognize
our Guru Maharaj - Acharya Pranavanandaji Maharaj - as one of
the teachers of modern times Who has done a great deal to improve
human conditions and understanding.
Suffering
in the world is due to a lack of proper understanding. This understanding
we can get only through meditation, through Self-culture. Religion
without Self-culture cannot bring about that refinement in men.
To be able to maintain a balanced mind is so important for us.
And therefore, our Acharya emphasized self-control very strongly,
because only when we are able to overcome our instincts, we can
have that inner peace, and through that we can have outer peace
as well, like Shiva - meaning peace - sitting in meditation.
Likewise,
our Acharya used to sit in meditation in the early morning for
three to six hours when He was a child and at a later stage He
would sit in meditation the whole day or night. In this way we
are taught how important meditation is to our spiritual well-being,
inner harmony and harmony of the whole world. So, this is the
role of the teacher. A teacher is one who is detached from worldly
temptations. Without a teacher, the followers are left in a state
of blindness and so teachers play a very important role to guide
the followers of religion. Hinduism, therefore, has never been
without teachers and that is why - in spite of being a very ancient
religion - it is still very dynamic, with a great sense of purpose.
Today, the different religions are awaiting the coming of the
Buddha, the Christ, Krishna, for example. Everyone is expecting
a teacher, because we think that we are at a junction or crisis,
and unless a teacher comes our world will be destroyed.
However,
it is important to remember that while we are waiting for this
World Teacher, this Master, we have to take care ourselves of
whatever we have, and that is: to follow the teachings and to
try in our own way to help overcome the problems we are facing
in our present-day world - with the help of the teachers that
are there to help us to remain conscious of our pure Being. When
we are ready and prepared, the World Teacher and the Masters will,
no doubt, come.
It is essential to understand that contact with our spiritual
Masters is very important for us to be able to have that higher
realization of the unity of life and the unity of the world. The
Masters have transcended the world of diversity into a world of
unity, harmony and oneness. Our spiritual teachers told us that
we are coming to an age of universal unification and universal
emancipation and that we should work towards that by spreading
the message, the words of wisdom, to elevate the mind of people,
to enlighten them, so that they can understand there is a greater
purpose in life than all the conflicts that are so obvious. Life
in this world should be lived in such a way that there can be
harmony, peace and progress in a collective sense, not in an individual
or personal sense. In this way we will have a world that the Masters
can be proud of when They come. But if we still maintain a state
of conflict, hoping that the Masters are going to come, we might
be disappointed because they will only come when we are prepared
for Them, when we are ready for Them. This readiness calls for
a lot of austerity, preparation and discipline, and once these
are there, there is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that the Masters
will appear.
Q:
What is the relationship of Guru Maharaj to Lord Shiva?
A:
Shiva is not an Avatar. Shiva is one of the Trinity in the Hindu
religion. In the Trinity, Shiva is the Lord of Regeneration and
of Yoga: Acharya Pranavanandaji Maharaj is an Avatar of Shiva:
He was born in 1896. During that time the world was [in] a warring
mood - each nation trying to subjugate the other and there were
sectarian conflicts with creeds and beliefs; He came with a message
saying that this is an age of universal unification, of universal
harmony, of universal emancipation. He was not emphasizing differences,
but the need for harmony, unity and co-operation for the salvation
of humanity.
That
is why we feel that His message is so relevant to our modern times.
Sri Krishna granting full vision of His Divine Being to Arjuna
Q:
What is the difference between Hinduism and Christianity?
A:
All teachers, like Jesus and Krishna, came for a particular reason
with a message relevant to their time, whereas other teachers
came with messages relating God to Man. Guru Maharaj emphasized
the problems of mankind. He said that there are enough teachings
already, that each teacher had given something that was relevant
for the world at the time, to the people of that time, and that
in the present age we need something more practical, something
whereby man realizes that without harmony and peace our existence
is at stake. Krishna is an Avatar of Vishnu, the Preserver of
the world, and Jesus - as Christians say - is an Avatar of God.
The Islamic religion has no teachers but - as Mohammed is called
- the Messenger or the Prophet. When we look at our present day,
we see the need to work for harmony and unity, which is so much
emphasized by all genuine seekers today and what Acharya Pranavanandaji
Maharaj declared, with foresight, in 1920. His prophetic vision
was that we ultimately will have to work, not for our own salvation,
but for the salvation of humanity.
His
main teaching is that we must culture our life along the lines
of renunciation, celibacy, self-control and adherence to the path
of Truth. Without these disciplines religion cannot refine man.
They are the basic principles of religion, and following them
can transform us from human beings into Divine Beings. These principles
elevate and refine the human mind, make us more Self-conscious
and create a sense of harmony with other beings. His emphasis
on seva - selfless service - to the poor, the ignorant, the destitute,
is still a fundamental principle in the Sangha [Community].
We
must look at human suffering in all its forms and we must try
to elevate people from a low to a very high intellectual and spiritual
standard. Only then - by developing the common people who ordinarily
cannot transform themselves - can we have a world where everyone
respects the other, one world, a perfect world - and this is the
main teaching of Guru Maharaj. When we look at it within the context
of our everyday life, we will find that unless we adhere to the
path of Truth our life cannot become sublimated, because falsehood
is the basic cause of the conflicts in the world. We all have
something to hide and that is why we have to speak the untruth.
But Guru Maharaj emphasized that following the path of Truth will
help man to realize that without Truth we cannot have harmony
in the world. Renunciation means giving up selfishness and greed,
for they are the causes of conflict.
We
have many things in the world; when we develop contentment and
self-satisfaction we will not covet anyone's wealth or anything
of this sort. Guru Maharaj's emphasis on celibacy is very relevant
to our modern time where people have become promiscuous, having
illicit sex, with AIDS - among other things - as a result. Therefore,
unless we refine ourselves, unless we live a regulated and disciplined
life, we cannot really have peace of mind, neither can we have
peace in the world.
Prophets
came at different times to emphasize a particular message, even
though there were valuable teachings already, but They emphasized
something specific at a particular age. Acharya Pranavanandaji
Maharaj did not deny what the Prophets and Divine Incarnations
had taught - all being true - but that we should practise the
inner principles of these teachings because we have forgotten
the spirit of these teachings and as a result of that we fight
on a sectarian basis, on beliefs and concepts, rather than trying
to experience what They taught us. His main emphasis is that we
must strive for experiencing the teachings and not just following
them.
In
Christianity, suffering is almost the central teaching, being
acceptable as a part of life, something we must accept and take
for granted. Jesus on the Cross is central to Christianity. In
Hinduism the basic principle is quite different, for Hinduism
emphasizes that happiness and joy are the fundamental values of
life and that we must strive for them. Hinduism is a meditative
culture and in meditation we cannot really contemplate suffering,
but happiness, joy and peace. If we contemplate suffering, it
will affect us psychologically and in such a way that we will
become very frustrated. When we meditate on joy, our mind gradually
starts to adjust itself from this world of suffering to the world
of harmony, of peace, and the experience of joy. To give that
impression of happiness, joy and peace, we find on the Hindu altar
many beautiful pictures of various characters - aspects of the
Godhead - decorated beautifully with lights and flowers.
On
the contrary, we find in most Christian churches Jesus on the
Cross, representing suffering. So, this is the basic difference
between Christianity and Hinduism.
No
doubt this must have influenced the adherence to these two different
religions. The emphasis in Hindusim is to strive for knowledge,
liberation and happiness because the Hindus believe that happiness
is the Source of our Being and striving for happiness is, therefore,
very important. Suffering is not really a characteristic of our
Being. Suffering is the cause of ignorance and happiness comes
through knowledge. The Hindus know that knowledge will make them
happy, that it is going to break down all the barriers of life,
all the differences that exist in society, and that is why they
strive for it. And meditation is that part through which we can
attain that state.
Q:
How do Hindus believe in God?
A:
Hindus believe in the Blessings and the Grace of God, and that
they come through the Guru. The Guru plays a very central part
in the Hindu religion and the Blessing that we get from God is
the knowledge that we receive. That when we get this knowledge,
we can recognize a holy man, we can recognize Truth from falsehood,
and that recognition is very important for a Hindu because when
we mistake the untruth for Truth and the Truth for untruth, that
confusion leads to a lot of problems in life. As a result we find
that we do not progress in any real sense.
It is very important to recognize the good in people and even
more important to recognize the Spiritual Master or Teacher as
God on earth, that he is the representation of God's Blessing
on earth. That contact with Him is very important, because the
moment we get in touch with Him our lives become different. He
is an example of which the scriptures speak. He is the wise man,
the holy man, the free man, the happy man. When we find these
characteristics in Him, the grace flows from God through Him to
us and when we surrender ourselves to the holy man, the Guru,
we will find that we are receiving God's Grace, because that happiness
and joy transmit from God, from the Divine Being, through the
guru to the disciples and devotees. In the Guru we have faith
and we approach Him with reverence; we prostrate in front of Him
and we serve Him. That close connection with Him helps us to receive
that Divine Vibration which emanates from His very Being. It is
something we cannot describe in words, that kind of communication
cannot be verbal - it is something that is intuitive, that we
experience within. So when we speak about God's Grace in the Hindu
religion, we find that God's Grace comes to us through the Guru,
through the saints, through the spiritual Masters.
It
is through this that we find satisfaction and fulfilment. It is
a fact - even in our secular life in the world - that the teacher
plays a very important part, for without a teacher it is very
difficult to learn anything. And it is more so in our spiritual
life. When we come in touch with a spiritual Master, He is like
a mother: He will take care of us, guide and protect us, and do
whatever is necessary for us - He will help us all the way. Contact
with Him is like completing 90 per cent of the journey and we
have to walk only 10 per cent ourselves. When we, as aspirants,
are frustrated, rejected, forlorn and feel that we cannot achieve
our goal, the Guru will urge us at that moment, encourage us and
help us on our way, and so, gradually we will get back on our
feet and proceed on the journey. The Guru is like a cat carrying
its kitten. Likewise, the guru takes the disciple to a certain
distance and when he reaches there, he will understand the greater
values of the inner life. Then he himself will walk the path towards
Self-realization. Detachment plays an important part in Self-realization,
knowledge and liberation, because when we are attached to the
world we become bound by the world of cause and effect. The Guru
- in His way - attracts the 'child', the aspirant, to Him, away
from the world, onto the spiritual path. As soon as the aspirant
comes near the Guru, he will sense the spiritual value in the
teacher's life. The spiritual vibration that emanates from the
teacher attracts the disciple.
This
attraction is not a form of attachment. Attachment refers only
to the material world. When we are away from the source of Our
Being, the attachment to the Guru or that Divine Source will bring
us back home from where we have come. In one we find our existence;
in the other we lose our existence. This is the difference between
attachment to the Guru or to the world. So, attachment to the
world and attachment to the Guru are quite opposite. When we get
attached to the world we lose our identity, we lose ourselves,
we lose our being. The Guru will bring us back on our path, till
we find our way back home: when we discover ourselves.
Om Tat Sat Hari Om.
Reprinted
with the kind permission of Share International Magazine.
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